Steve Jackson Games Forums

Steve Jackson Games Forums (http://forums.sjgames.com/index.php)
-   GURPS (http://forums.sjgames.com/forumdisplay.php?f=13)
-   -   Altered Time Rate (Locomotion) (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=143147)

Walrus 05-04-2016 08:27 PM

Altered Time Rate (Locomotion)
 
Hello.

The trait I'm interested in was originally intended for centaurs but it may be used for any characters with advanced locomotion system independent from other body parts: wheeled or tracked mechas, winged flyers, octopi and so on.

=============================================
Altered Time Rate (Locomotion)

You have locomotion system which acts independently of your other body parts. This gives you two maneuvers per turn but with limited scope.

One maneuver involves your locomotion system, so it's either Move (which may be Sprint), Move and Attack (for Slams), All-Out Defense (Increased Dodge) or any kind of Attack if your locomotion system includes manipulators, strikers or can be used as Innate Attack (like jet engine).

Another maneuver can't include any move and can't use your locomotion system in any way. Your effective attack skill is limited by DX-based locomotion skill (Running, Flight, Swimming or whatever) if you moved.

You can't direct your attacks from different maneuvers into different targets unless you also have Enhanced Tracking.

You are likely to have unusual body morphology and limited defense options for differently directed attacks but these are separate traits.
============================================
So, how much is such limitation? What should I add or remove for this to be generic?

starslayer 05-04-2016 09:03 PM

Re: Altered Time Rate (Locomotion)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Walrus (Post 2002814)
Hello.

The trait I'm interested in was originally intended for centaurs but it may be used for any characters with advanced locomotion system independent from other body parts: wheeled or tracked mechas, winged flyers, octopi and so on.

=============================================
Altered Time Rate (Locomotion)

You have locomotion system which acts independently of your other body parts. This gives you two maneuvers per turn but with limited scope.

One maneuver involves your locomotion system, so it's either Move (which may be Sprint), Move and Attack (for Slams), All-Out Defense (Increased Dodge) or any kind of Attack if your locomotion system includes manipulators, strikers or can be used as Innate Attack (like jet engine).

Another maneuver can't include any move and can't use your locomotion system in any way. Your effective attack skill is limited by DX-based locomotion skill (Running, Flight, Swimming or whatever) if you moved.

You can't direct your attacks from different maneuvers into different targets unless you also have Enhanced Tracking.

You are likely to have unusual body morphology and limited defense options for differently directed attacks but these are separate traits.
============================================
So, how much is such limitation? What should I add or remove for this to be generic?

I'm not sure this is ultimately much of a limitation- you've opened up so many options for what you can do with the ATR that it is very nearly the vanialla version. 'requires skill roll' is -10% and will map well to the skill cap if you always need to roll on it, lack of ability to do all out attack followed by regular attack is perhaps -5%, and the requirement that you identify which 'part' your innate abilities belong to is perhaps another -5%; for a total of -20%

I think if anything that is being quite generous.

chandley 05-04-2016 09:22 PM

Re: Altered Time Rate (Locomotion)
 
I priced "Extra Move Maneuver" (which does two of the things you ask for there) as 25 points. If its going to include All-Out-Defense and any Attack maneuver though, your at a "Nuisance Effect, must be an action using your legs, -5%" kind of deal on your ATR.

evileeyore 05-04-2016 11:37 PM

Re: Altered Time Rate (Locomotion)
 
For ATR, the Physical Maneuvers only Limitation, I'd price it somewhere around -25%.

This precludes Aiming, Concentrate, Do Nothing Mental (Stun, Surprise, Stunned), Evaluate, and probably Ready. That you're also precluding All Out Defense (Double) and limiting All Out Defense (Increased Defense) to only Dodge isn't that limiting, but it's rolled in as well. (Note you are also removing most Attack maneuvers if the Motive System doesn't have 'appropriate' Strikers, which is a separate expense).

Secondly you're giving it some sort of Aiming/Evaluate Limitation, not allowing Targeting actions to carry over from any 'non-motive' maneuvers. I'd price this as Separate Tracking, -5%.


Secondly you have some sort of Disadvantage on your normal Maneuvers, limiting you from Using any Move maneuver or Step. This precludes Move, Move and Attack, all Steps, Dive and Dodge, and Retreats during Defenses. Also your are setting a skill cap to all actions during movement based on the Drive Train's motive type (Running, Swimming, Acrobatics, Aerobatics, Aquabatics, etc). This is the more difficult portion... I'd be tempted to price this at -20, as I personally find losing Retreat and getting a Skill capping skill to be troublesome.

Honestly, I'd be tempted to roll both the ATR and the Disad together and call it a Meta-Trait: Drive Train, or Separate Motive System, or something. This would put it at 50 points, in line with Compartmentalized Mind, but without CM's extra bene and with a host of drawbacks, but also with a significantly expanded Maneuver repertoire.

Anaraxes 05-05-2016 07:00 AM

Re: Altered Time Rate (Locomotion)
 
Humans have a "drive train" every bit as independent as the usual centaur's. I don't see a reason to treat them any differently from baseline humans as far as movement goes. Four-legged animals don't have a split maneuver system, nor do birds and other winged creatures.

It's tricky to try to calculate costs based on what maneuvers part of you can't take. What really matters is whether the entire assemblage that is the centaur can take the usual range of maneuvers (or more, or fewer). Imagine a human being built as "only the Legs section can take Move maneuvers" while "Only the torso section can Attack". With the exception of kicking, you've actually lost nothing here. It would be unfair to build each half at -50% for having so few options, and wind up with a huge discount for "Cannot kick". That's on the verge of giving the human a discount for "Ground move only", as the torso+leg sections don't have a wings section, and similar silliness.

If you have a truly separate drive system, with its own intelligence and thoughts about where to go, you can treat it as a vehicle for chosing maneuvers. That works for horse-and-rider, or a tank driver and gunner, or some sort of weird centaur with a hindbrain that moves the body around despite what the head/torso might want to do.

whswhs 05-05-2016 08:18 AM

Re: Altered Time Rate (Locomotion)
 
That definition doesn't make sense to me as "altered time rate (locomotion)." What I expected was to see an account of a creature that could take two moves per second instead of one—that is, actually getting two actions a turn, so long as both are "move."

I think that an ATR build is too complex for what you get, in any case.

First, you get to move twice the distance. That can be bought either as Enhanced Move (Ground) or as buying up your Basic Move.

Second, you can turn more readily: take one move, turn, take another move, and turn again, for example. This is partially covered by taking higher Basic Move, as you don't need to make control rolls if you stay under your Basic Move. But it can also be partially covered by Handling Bonus, and by a high basic DX underneath that.

naloth 05-05-2016 01:35 PM

Re: Altered Time Rate (Locomotion)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by whswhs (Post 2002896)
I think that an ATR build is too complex for what you get, in any case.

I've venture that depends on the effect you want. If you're closing the distance with still enough time to take another action (or acting then moving) ATR seems appropriate.

Quote:

First, you get to move twice the distance. That can be bought either as Enhanced Move (Ground) or as buying up your Basic Move.
The intends seem to be either 2 concurrent actions or two sequential actions in a turn. As a GM, I've allowed ATR "only specific things" as a limitation.

Unless you bought up your step distance to absurd amounts (Move, step only?), you would have to take an action to accomplish the same thing with Move while Enhanced Move only kicks in after you spend a turn of accelerating.

Alternately, if you just want move and attack you could buy up either DX (only while moving) or get a technique to improve move and attack. Powers already allows speedsters to exceed the M&A skill cap as part of their power description.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:50 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.