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-   -   The Woodsman Talent (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=158378)

Jim Kane 07-08-2018 04:46 AM

The Woodsman Talent
 
As the rules-set informs in it's current state, all the Outdoor Survival Skills are considered and condensed under the umbrella of the Woodsman talent, and this assumes automatic success in these matters when a woodsman is present.

It is only in the case of an adventure party which lacks a woodsman - *and if they individually fail their 3d6 saving roll* - does any misadventure befall any of the party members when trying to brave the wilderness.

Therefore there is no need for rules governing how, where, and when a party or party member can find and identify drinkable water, edible food, locate a natural shelter, etc while in-play.

The current rules assume automatic success until failure; whereas having a detailed hunting, trapping, foraging, and basic outdoor survival rules-set would assume failure until success was achieved through play.

Is a more detailed and actively played rules-set in this area something that anyone is interested in; or, is the current outdoor survival system - via the all-inclusive woodsman talent - fine the way it is?

Thoughts?

JK

Chris Rice 07-08-2018 04:58 AM

Re: The Woodsman Talent
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Kane (Post 2189770)
As the rules-set informs in it's current state, all the Outdoor Survival Skills are considered and condensed under the umbrella of the Woodsman talent, and this assumes automatic success in these matters when a woodsman is present.

It is only in the case of an adventure party which lacks a woodsman - *and if they individually fail their 3d6 saving roll* - does any misadventure befall any of the party members when trying to brave the wilderness.

Therefore there is no need for rules governing how, where, and when a party or party member can find and identify drinkable water, edible food, locate a natural shelter, etc while in-play.

The current rules assume automatic success until failure; whereas having a detailed hunting, trapping, foraging, and basic outdoor survival rules-set would assume failure until success was achieved through play.

Is a more detailed and actively played rules-set in this area something that anyone else is interested in; or, is the current outdoor survival system - via the all-inclusive woodsman talent - fine the way it is?

Thoughts?

JK

There are further rules regarding some aspects of this; they are on pages 23-24 of ITL "Lost in the Wilderness," and being a Woodsman does not guarantee success, they merely roll one less die.

Jim Kane 07-08-2018 06:43 AM

Re: The Woodsman Talent
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Rice (Post 2189775)
There are further rules regarding some aspects of this; they are on pages 23-24 of ITL "Lost in the Wilderness," and being a Woodsman does not guarantee success, they merely roll one less die.

That's true Chris; but understand that "becoming lost" *may* contribute to the eventual demise of a party; but, being unable to locate drinkable water, find edible food, or locate serviceable shelter during hazardous weather - lost or not - will surely guarantee it.

So what's your feeling on the outdoor survival rules as covered under the woodsman talent - and as asked in the OP?

JK

Chris Rice 07-08-2018 07:50 AM

Re: The Woodsman Talent
 
A simple fix, and one I used myself, is to make the Woodsman choose a specialist terrain type; forest, mountain, coastal, plains or desert. The woodsman should therefore be an expert on that terrain only. In other terrains, they might get a bonus depending on task. I never felt the need for the rules to be expanded beyond that but Iím sure they could be if people feel the need strongly enough.

ecz 07-08-2018 09:22 AM

Re: The Woodsman Talent
 
We need more detailed rules for "life in the wilderness" and possbly a second level "expert" woodsman talent.
It's a not negligible part of adventuring too often negleted by the party that assume they can travel and live outdoor for weeks without any problem if they buy enough rations.

Chris Rice 07-08-2018 09:40 AM

Re: The Woodsman Talent
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ecz (Post 2189822)
We need more detailed rules for "life in the wilderness" and possbly a second level "expert" woodsman talent.
It's a not negligible part of adventuring too often negleted by the party that assume they can travel and live outdoor for weeks without any problem if they buy enough rations.

Itís not a negligible part of the game but whether we need rules for it is a debatability.

philreed 07-08-2018 09:58 AM

Re: The Woodsman Talent
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ecz (Post 2189822)
We need more detailed rules for "life in the wilderness" and possbly a second level "expert" woodsman talent.

Disagree. Piling rules on rules on rules on rules . . . nope. I'd rather see the game kept tight and open to interpretation and expansion by individual GMs. Writing a rule for every little thing is unnecessary.

Skarg 07-08-2018 10:12 AM

Re: The Woodsman Talent
 
Mapped travel and wilderness exploration, mapping and survival, night-time guard shifts, and sometimes pursuit, escape, tracking humanoids, outdoor/wilderness stealth & scouting, ambushes and night-time surprise attacks, dangerous river crossing, desert crossing, mountain range crossing, etc., were a large part of our play of TFT.

We would have voraciously gobbled up and used such rules, and wished they would appear, but ended up having to use "GM discretion" (often meaning hand-wave or ignore) for the details of such situations.

I'm still always wanting more such rules (e.g. I'm looking forward to Douglas Cole's new GURPS Dungeon Fantasy project ("Hall of Judgment" - there's a Kickstarter) er, mainly just for the outdoor adventure rules he's putting in it).

JLV 07-08-2018 11:15 AM

Re: The Woodsman Talent
 
Well, Phil is right in one way, but on the other hand, it would be nice to have some good, tight rules covering things like getting lost, random encounters, and foraging out in the wilderness. As I recall, Barbarian Prince did this very well in only a couple of (small) pages of rules, so it wouldn't be a book-killer...

Over on the "New Skills" page, I proposed a series of "Survival" skills (one for each terrain type) that would improve the possibility of successfully foraging for food and water, and finding your way if lost in that terrain type (and "Streetwise" for a somewhat similar talent for Urban environments, though obviously the issues there would be different in many ways), so I think having some basic rules for this sort of thing would be very helpful -- especially for beginning GMs.

(I'd note that you could also create a "Dungeoneering" or "Underground" talent that would allow players some advantage in finding their way underground, using local resources to make light, etc.)

Rick_Smith 07-08-2018 12:09 PM

Re: The Woodsman Talent
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ecz (Post 2189822)
We need more detailed rules for "life in the wilderness" and possbly a second level "expert" woodsman talent.
It's a not negligible part of adventuring too often negleted by the party that assume they can travel and live outdoor for weeks without any problem if they buy enough rations.

Hi ecz, everyone.
I totally agree ecz. I feel that the Ranger Class could use some love. (Stealth, ambushes, wilderness survival, navigation / orienteering, etc.) Because there is no way to get really good at these, there is no way to be really bad, so the easy thing for GM's to do would be to ignore such adventure possibilities.

Warm regards, Rick.


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