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-   -   [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#52): Extra Attack (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=155684)

Otaku 02-11-2018 03:51 PM

[Basic] Advantage of the Week (#52): Extra Attack
 
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If you're new to this series or just want to leave feedback about it, check out the Introduction Thread. If you need help finding something we've already discussed, johndallman is maintaining an index of which traits we've discussed. This is especially handy if the trait you are searching for happens to have been part of a multi-subject review.

Basic

Extra Attack (p. B53-54), a Mundane (first level only), Physical Advantage that costs 25 per level*. Each level of this trait grants you an extra Attack maneuver on your turn during combat but does not offset any naturally occurring penalties (such as from using your offhand). You cannot take more levels of this than you have methods of attacking available (natural weapons, limbs, and attack powers) and it is okay to use a weapon (or weapons) in these attacks, provided you're not violating some other rule (like trying to fire a normal gun with your non-manipulator foot). You can use some of these on Feints, but only one may be used for a Rapid Strike, which grants only one extra attack over your baseline but only two of your attacks suffer the Rapid Strike's -6 Skill penalty. When the character with any levels of Extra Attack chooses to All-Out Attack, it may select
  • Determined, with all attacks gaining the +4 bonus to hit.
  • Double, which grants only one additional
  • Feint, which (if successful) gives your opponent a penalty to defend against all of your remaining attacks that turn.**
  • Strong, which grants +2 damage (or +1/die if better) to your ST-based attacks.

The mundane version of this trait simply represents a person with exceptionally good coordination. Note that, even though a normal human has two arms, two legs, and is capable of biting or headbutting, one level of Extra Attack is still the cap; if you can do all that in one turn without All-Out Attacking, you outside of the realm of mundane human (at least, as far as RAW is concerned). Also, note that it doesn't allow extra Aim or Evaluate maneuvers; take Enhanced Tracking for that.

Other Supplements
  • GURPS Powers offers clarifications on what Extra Attack can do, using it in a Powers-inclusive setting, custom Modifiers (Multi-Strike, Single Skill), and Powers that include Extra Attack.
  • GURPS Supers offers a little more detail on using Extra Attacks in the Supers genre and contains new Talents, Powers, and templates that utilize it.
  • GURPS Update lets us know that the Third Edition trait "Full Coordination" corresponds to Extra attack, but more on that in our next section.
  • Pyramid 3/83 features many alternate rules, hence declaring "Alternate GURPS IV" on its cover. One article within is titled "Pointless Monster Hunting", and explains how to run a GURPS Monster Hunters campaign without using Character Points. One package (not sure what to call them) does include Extra Attack.

Past Editions

As stated earlier, under the Third Edition rules - and perhaps earlier - Extra Attack was known as "Full Coordination". I shall refer to the trait's entry found in Compendium I, on page 56; this puts in in the chapter for Super and Racial Advantages. It is priced at 50 CP/level* and the text makes no exception to allow a single level for mundane humans, though it does mention that a character with two arms could indeed take one level of the trait so as to attack with each arm. Besides other differences native to how Third Edition Operates versus Fourth Edition (such as referencing Independently Focusable Eyes instead of Enhanced Tracking), the final major difference is that, when taking an All-Out Attack and selecting the option to increase your number of attacks, it provides a 50% increase instead of a single, additional attack. Thus, a creature with Full Coordination Lv.3 could attack six times when All-Out Attacking (or 50% more than the four times it would usually be allowed to attack).

Useful Links

Feel free to suggest any existing threads or other, appropriate links on this matter.

Discussion Starters

This is (usually) a generic list of questions for those who want to participate in the discussion but need a little help. If you already know what you want to say, feel free to skip these. ;)
  • Have you ever taken this trait for one of your PCs or NPCs? How did it work out?
  • Is there anything this trait does really well?
  • Is there anything you think this trait could or should do differently?
  • Any related traits you believe are necessary for full discussion? Go ahead and bring them up, but remember that this is a thread for Elastic Skin.
  • Any thoughts on how the 4e version of these traits compares to them in earlier editions?

*The actual text does not use the term "level", but uses the term "attacks", which I found more confusing instead of less, and even if I hadn't I prefer uniform terminology for such things unless grossly inconvenient. Feel free to let me know if you would prefer I do or do not take such liberties in the future.

**Extrapolation on my part. The rules for Feints on p. B365 states that the penalty applied to the opponent's Defenses from a successful Feint lasts one second. It also states that if you Feint, then use All-Out Attack (Double) on your next turn, your opponent suffers the Defense penalty against both attacks. The rules for the All-Out Attack (Double) entry of the All-Out Attack section (same page) states that if you wish, you may Feint and then Attack instead of Attacking twice for All-Out Attack (Double), but that if you do, the penalty from a successful Feint only applies to your next attack.

Flyndaran 02-11-2018 04:18 PM

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#52): Extra Attack
 
If I have the points, I almost automatically give my martial artists Extra Attack: one skill. It just fits my idea of speedy/skilled but not superhuman Bruce Lee or Musketeer image too well to ignore.

Devil_Dante 02-11-2018 04:20 PM

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#52): Extra Attack
 
i suggest to add the combination of
extra attack, rapid strike, dual weapons attack and all-out attack double

Extra attack is, correct me if i'm wrong" the enhanced version of dual weapon attack. In fact, you can't use both dual weapon attack and extra attack, because both use the left arm. Extra attack does make you buy off -4 for dual weapon attack for "any kind of attack, with every weapon". Doesn t cover the penalty for the off-hand. Buy the the "off-hand weapon training" tech or ambidexterity

extra attack makes you use a different limb, or, with the Power variation multistrike (30 points), the same limb. Generaly is most "power/super/alien/magic" oeiented PC.

Without multistrike, and with only one level of extra attack you can (considering that you can rapid strike only once per maneuver)
1)using extra attack + normal attack. (-4,+0)
2)extra attack + rapid strike + normal attack (-4,-6,-6)
3)extra attack + all-out attack (double)+normal attack. (-4,+0,+0; no active defense)
4)extra attack + all-out attack (double)+ rapid strike+ normal attack. (-4, -6,-6,+0)

forgot anything?

Žorkell 02-11-2018 05:50 PM

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#52): Extra Attack
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyndaran (Post 2157673)
If I have the points, I almost automatically give my martial artists Extra Attack: one skill. It just fits my idea of speedy/skilled but not superhuman Bruce Lee or Musketeer image too well to ignore.

Personally I'd use the points to raise the skill (Karate or whichever Fencing skill the Musketeer is using) even higher and do Rapid Strikes to represent the speedy/skilled but not superhuman martial artist.

Icelander 02-11-2018 06:02 PM

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#52): Extra Attack
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyndaran (Post 2157673)
If I have the points, I almost automatically give my martial artists Extra Attack: one skill. It just fits my idea of speedy/skilled but not superhuman Bruce Lee or Musketeer image too well to ignore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Žorkell (Post 2157693)
Personally I'd use the points to raise the skill (Karate or whichever Fencing skill the Musketeer is using) even higher and do Rapid Strikes to represent the speedy/skilled but not superhuman martial artist.

One level of Extra Attack that can be used for grappling moves really helps with pulling off what skilled characters, who are supposed to be entirely without superpowers, pull off in typical action cinema.

Trained by a Master gives access to traits that may not fit a world like the Bourne universe or the world in Shooter and even in ultra-cinematic movies like the recent Bond, John Wick or Atomic Blonde movies, characters don't actually walk on walls and ceilings, run over foilage or jump inhuman distances.

And taking high enough skill to be able to absorb -6 Rapid Strike penalties and still hit certain hit locations, reliably defeat Active Defences and/or win Quick Contests, would mean that the character could also reliably do other things that they are not shown doing.

It often models modern action heroes better to give them skill 18-22 in a range of armed and unarmed skills and Extra Attack, rather than raw skill 24-28, especially as they often demonstrate a capability to use various weapons, improvised or otherwise, as part of their lightning quick combinations, which would mean that they'd need this high skill level with a high number of skills.

vicky_molokh 02-12-2018 07:11 AM

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#52): Extra Attack
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Otaku (Post 2157667)
Each level of this trait grants you an extra Attack maneuver on your turn during combat

A deeply regrettable wording.

ericthered 02-12-2018 11:28 AM

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#52): Extra Attack
 
Extra attack appears in the worked Genre sets a number of times:

DF has it as an option for the swashbuckler and as a chi ability. Some of its monsters also have it, including the Peshkali, which has extra attack 5.

Monster Hunters offers Extra attack to inhumans, experiments, and warriors. Its list of advantages indicates a single level is appropriate rather than many (experiments may exceed this limit, but only as part of a power set). Its enemies book hands out the advantage with Gusto: Strong Demons, Demon Lords, Albino Alligators, Mature and tougher vampires and Angels all have various levels of it.

After the End give the Hulk Extra attack, as does the "Fast" Upgrade, but the book carefully rules that you may only take one level total.

Action generally makes extra attack part of martial arts, requiring trained by a master or weapon master in order to take it, but allows a perk to waive that requirement.

All of these focus on extra attack as being useful for close quarters combat, rather than ranged combat. Extra attack technically can be used for ranged combat, but I don't see it much, as effective use requires other advantages.

Icelander 02-12-2018 11:34 AM

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#52): Extra Attack
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ericthered (Post 2157880)
All of these focus on extra attack as being useful for close quarters combat, rather than ranged combat. Extra attack technically can be used for ranged combat, but I don't see it much, as effective use requires other advantages.

Well, it's also pretty much required when using ranged weapon skills in CQC, as has become very popular with in the late 20th century and 21st century action movies; Matrix, Equilibrium, John Woo movies, John Wick, Atomic Blonde, Bond, etc.

It's not uncommon to see the protagonist use a grapple + strike + one or more ranged attack in one second or to shoot three people, who are standing in at least a 180° arc, in one second of acrobatic pistol dancing. This is way easier to do with Extra Attack + Quick-Shot than with any other method.

ericthered 02-12-2018 12:27 PM

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#52): Extra Attack
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Icelander (Post 2157882)
Well, it's also pretty much required when using ranged weapon skills in CQC....

Sorry, I meant in official works.

AlexanderHowl 02-12-2018 12:39 PM

Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week (#52): Extra Attack
 
I do not think that Extra Attack is an upgraded form of DWA. If it was, you could not use Extra Attack with Rapid Strike, as you cannot use DWA with Rapid Strike. Since you can use Extra Attack with Rapid Strike, you can use DWA with Extra Attack. For example, a martial artist with Extra Attack 1 could use one attack maneuver to kick once with Kicking and then trade their second attack maneuver to punch twice with DWA (Karate).


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