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-   -   Question About the Style Gaki (Munchkin Fu) (http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=152098)

emberwatch 10-03-2017 07:40 PM

Question About the Style Gaki (Munchkin Fu)
 
Alright, so there's a problem with one of the cards that my friend and I are completely stumped on.

On the "Style Gaki" card it states the following ability: [Mod: Please do not quote card text.]

Now I'm assuming the point here is to state, "ANY CARD" I get that...

But you have to understand that some of us that function a bit more literally minded would interpret that to mean "ANY"...

...

...

... "CARD" ...

Including the cards in the opponents play area. Including the cards in the draw decks. Including the cards in the discard piles... Including the cards in the other expansions sitting on my shelf. Including my expansive collection of MTG cards in the game room...

My friend even placed down his credit card on the table and gave the Style Gaki a +2... and challenged me to find the rule that states he cannot use it... I couldn't find anything.

Technically my wife could get me a "thank you" card from the Hallmark store, and she could play it on the Gaki, even if she isn't playing the game, because it says "ANYONE"

To wit, my friend and I set about a whole hour and a half of searching, laughing, and arguing... and more searching. Neither of us could find anything anywhere that would help us to understand just where the line is drawn here.

Considering that the Gaki is only a level 14... we both seriously doubt that this is the way the card was intentionally MEANT to be played, so we assume there's some sort of 'implied' limitation as to who constitutes as "anyone" and what constitutes as "any card."

Please, for the sake of sanity and all that is holy... give us some sort of boon from the deities... Shine upon us your glorious light of knowledge... help us in our hour of need SJG!

Your friendly neighborhood,
~Emberwatch Lounge

Andrew Hackard 10-03-2017 07:49 PM

Re: Question About the Style Gaki (Munchkin Fu)
 
Using cards (or people?!? seriously??) from outside the game is not legal and those illegal plays do not count toward the Style Gaki bonus.

emberwatch 10-03-2017 09:05 PM

Re: Question About the Style Gaki (Munchkin Fu)
 
I agree that's a bit of a stretch, and to a small degree, was only entertained for the sake of comedy, but even if we were to take the issue a bit more with a serious tone and only look within the confines of the game itself, the card does present an issue.

And I assure you this is a very serious question. I'm not trying to troll or flame here...

Does this card apply to any card, whether it's under the possession of a particular player or not, and does it apply to any of the cards not yet drawn, or cards that have been discarded? Does it apply to someone's hand?

If it applies to all or most of the above, then the game can theoretically implode upon itself the very second the Style Gaki card is played... as:

"...anyone, can use any card..."

Which means that all cards will instantly be plopped onto the Gaki, in a single round of combat, and upon conclusion, both players would lose all of their equipment in the process... all cards would be reshuffled and play would resume with fresh decks, no discard pile, and nobody would have anything in play or in their hand.

And as the rules are currently formatted and phrased, this is a perfectly legal situation to occur... so that's why we are asking for there to be some sort of guidance on this issue, or perhaps even official declaration from the developers about how to approach this card's wildly unregulated logical format.

Now... I'm assuming that there may be some implied context here that helps to address this particular card... so let me try and demonstrate why it's important that there's some level of clarity here...

We're playing a game, you and me, right this moment... and I play a wandering monster to bring out a Style Gaki...

Now, I'm really desperate to ensure you lose this battle, so I demand that you play your entire hand (which satisfies the description: any card).

Tell me what ruling specifically states that you can deny my demand?

Additionally, I decide to pick up both of the discard piles, and plop them on top of the Style Gaki, as they again satisfy the condition of any card.

Tell me specifically what rule negates my ability to do this?

If there is no boundary except for the utter outside boundary of the game itself, then the card can run rampant and break the game.

Andrew Hackard 10-04-2017 12:55 AM

Re: Question About the Style Gaki (Munchkin Fu)
 
This may not be explicitly specified in the rules, but it's such a fundamental part of game play that I am making this official ruling here and now: You cannot play cards that are not under your control.

This means, unless a rule explicitly says otherwise, you can't play cards out of the deck or discard pile and you definitely cannot force an opponent to play their cards. (And by "explicitly," I mean it has to say exactly that, not maybe perhaps somehow allow it by some tortured reading that is clearly outside the spirit of the game.)

emberwatch 10-04-2017 01:07 PM

Re: Question About the Style Gaki (Munchkin Fu)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard (Post 2126591)
This may not be explicitly specified in the rules, but it's such a fundamental part of game play that I am making this official ruling here and now: You cannot play cards that are not under your control.

This means, unless a rule explicitly says otherwise, you can't play cards out of the deck or discard pile and you definitely cannot force an opponent to play their cards. (And by "explicitly," I mean it has to say exactly that, not maybe perhaps somehow allow it by some tortured reading that is clearly outside the spirit of the game.)

Hey, I appreciate it, and if you think this is bad, try playing with my friend. Lol.

It's similar to two lawyers fighting over the definition of "relax."

"I am relaxed dammit!"

"How do YOU define relaxed because you don't seem relaxed to me!"

(looks up actual definition of relaxed)

It gets dicey.

Thanks for the clarification.

Andrew Hackard 10-04-2017 01:10 PM

Re: Question About the Style Gaki (Munchkin Fu)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by emberwatch (Post 2126680)
Hey, I appreciate it, and if you think this is bad, try playing with my friend. Lol.

Believe me, I feel you. I have a rule: I don't play Munchkin with the kind of gamer Munchkin is about. It has served me well.


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