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Axly Suregrip 06-23-2019 02:22 AM

Least Useful Spells
 
I saw a category about most useful adventuring spells and it made me think: Which are the spells do you find least useful and why. Then you may get replies of uses for these spells that you never thought of. Let me start this off.

Slow Movement: This spell being a thrown spell means you need to be close to your foe to cast. To put it simply: once you are engaged, slowing your foe is a bit late to be helpful. I find Trip or Sleep much better.

Avert: Sounds useful but given the maintenance cost (1 per turn) I'd rather have a summoned wolf. Also, often the first turn does nothing for you since after movement phase.

Magic Fist: Damage is too low.

Confusion: this is only useful against Wizards, and still the wizard foe can still cast his lower IQ spells or hit you with his staff (since you will be close enough to cast a Thrown spell on him). Instead a Clumsiness spell could help prevent both cast and attacks from hitting, AND it is useful against more than just Wizards. Does anyone use this to prevent disbelieving of their illusion?

Dazzle: only really intended for solo wizards. If you are in a group, you just dazzled your friends in addition to the foes. It would have been nice if the wizard could control direction of dazzle or something. So, has anyone found this useful in groups and how?

Chris Rice 06-23-2019 04:33 AM

Re: Least Useful Spells
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Axly Suregrip (Post 2270507)
I saw a category about most useful adventuring spells and it made me think: Which are the spells do you find least useful and why. Then you may get replies of uses for these spells that you never thought of. Let me start this off.

Slow Movement: This spell being a thrown spell means you need to be close to your foe to cast. To put it simply: once you are engaged, slowing your foe is a bit late to be helpful. I find Trip or Sleep much better.

Avert: Sounds useful but given the maintenance cost (1 per turn) I'd rather have a summoned wolf. Also, often the first turn does nothing for you since after movement phase.

Magic Fist: Damage is too low.

Confusion: this is only useful against Wizards, and still the wizard foe can still cast his lower IQ spells or hit you with his staff (since you will be close enough to cast a Thrown spell on him). Instead a Clumsiness spell could help prevent both cast and attacks from hitting, AND it is useful against more than just Wizards. Does anyone use this to prevent disbelieving of their illusion?

Dazzle: only really intended for solo wizards. If you are in a group, you just dazzled your friends in addition to the foes. It would have been nice if the wizard could control direction of dazzle or something. So, has anyone found this useful in groups and how?

Interesting, you've chosen 3 of my favourite spells!!!!

AVERT. Simply brilliant. The target gets no saving throw and it can affect anything, no matter how big or powerful it might be. Giants? Bah, go away you big lunk. 14 hex-Dragons.? Begone you overgrown snake! A summoned wolf wouldn't help you much there, would it. It's only weakness is against attacks from a distance, but you have reverse missiles for that.

MAGIC FIST. Another essential spell. The genius of this spell isn't that it's much good as an actual missile (it isn't) but in this: "...can also trigger traps or carry out other unsubtle manipulations within line of sight.." so it's like a clumsy retainer you can send ahead to check out dodgy areas. And it can do this for 1ST!

DAZZLE. A low level Wizard's mass attack spell. The scout reports a chamber ahead full of orcs, too many for the party to take on in a straight fight. The Wizard declares, "stand well back lads, I got this." He approaches the door, throws it open, casting Dazzle as he does so. The party then change in and clean up. The only thing that stops it being absolute kryptonite is the short duration of 3 turns so the players may only get a couple of turns of advantage. My favourite combo was Dazzle Wizard and Blind Warrior.

MikMod 06-23-2019 05:31 AM

Re: Least Useful Spells
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Rice (Post 2270511)
AVERT. Simply brilliant. The target gets no saving throw and it can affect anything, no matter how big or powerful it might be. Giants? Bah, go away you big lunk. 14 hex-Dragons.? Begone you overgrown snake! A summoned wolf wouldn't help you much there, would it. It's only weakness is against attacks from a distance, but you have reverse missiles for that.

I was looking for a spell some beginning characters might use when wish farming lesser wishes, and avert seemed perfect. It even works the first turn as the target has to take disengage option to move farther away. If the GM rules that it works on demons (not totally sure of this) and if you only have to hold it off for 12 turns (it seems implied in several places that their time here is limited) then this is the cheapest and surest way to dispose of it should things go wrong.

Chris Rice 06-23-2019 05:51 AM

Re: Least Useful Spells
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MikMod (Post 2270512)
I was looking for a spell some beginning characters might use when wish farming lesser wishes, and avert seemed perfect. It even works the first turn as the target has to take disengage option to move farther away. If the GM rules that it works on demons (not totally sure of this) and if you only have to hold it off for 12 turns (it seems implied in several places that their time here is limited) then this is the cheapest and surest way to dispose of it should things go wrong.

...."beginning characters.....wish farming lesser wishes..."

I'd like to think that's a joke, but I have a bad feeling you're serious 😂😂

MikMod 06-23-2019 06:04 AM

Re: Least Useful Spells
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Rice (Post 2270514)
...."beginning characters.....wish farming lesser wishes..."

I'd like to think that's a joke, but I have a bad feeling you're serious ����

IQ 14 seems perfectly reasonable if there are some apprentices with aid for hire somewhere - and why wouldn't there be? Or just persuade the rest of the party that Aid is worth learning since they'll be getting a steady stream of lesser wishes in return. Bearing in mind that one lesser wish makes a thrown dagger to the head practically lethal to most enemies, even heavily armoured dodging ones, and you don't even need knife talent! And Avert is very low level. I wasn't even going to bother with a pentagram since I envision it has to be 'broken' to wrestle a wish in any case. The only real issue, apart from gathering 30ST, is disposing of an angry demon without it teleporting straight into HTH when it wins initiative (and maybe even when it doesn't). That would be enough to mess everything up, but a swift Avert and a bit more aid and Bob's your uncle! :)

Thank goodness I'm GMing and not playing eh?

Chris Rice 06-23-2019 06:38 AM

Re: Least Useful Spells
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MikMod (Post 2270516)
IQ 14 seems perfectly reasonable if there are some apprentices with aid for hire somewhere - and why wouldn't there be? Or just persuade the rest of the party that Aid is worth learning since they'll be getting a steady stream of lesser wishes in return. Bearing in mind that one lesser wish makes a thrown dagger to the head practically lethal to most enemies, even heavily armoured dodging ones, and you don't even need knife talent! And Avert is very low level. I wasn't even going to bother with a pentagram since I envision it has to be 'broken' to wrestle a wish in any case. The only real issue, apart from gathering 30ST, is disposing of an angry demon without it teleporting straight into HTH when it wins initiative (and maybe even when it doesn't). That would be enough to mess everything up, but a swift Avert and a bit more aid and Bob's your uncle! :)

Thank goodness I'm GMing and not playing eh?

I still can't tell if you're serious or not 😂😂😂

I've always considered Wizards to be a fair bit rarer than the proportions mentioned in the rules. But even if they are as common as that, why would a Wizard lend you their apprentices to help you farm wishes? Surely they be doing it themselves. So what you say doesn't make sense.

Plus I think it may have been a mistake to reduce the IQ of Demons in the new edition, though I understand why it was done.

RobW 06-23-2019 07:00 AM

Re: Least Useful Spells
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Rice (Post 2270511)
MAGIC FIST. Another essential spell. The genius of this spell isn't that it's much good as an actual missile (it isn't) but in this: "...can also trigger traps or carry out other unsubtle manipulations within line of sight.." so it's like a clumsy retainer you can send ahead to check out dodgy areas. And it can do this for 1ST!

A cheap clumsy retainer, ha! Somehow never noticed that, nice!

MikMod 06-23-2019 08:24 AM

Re: Least Useful Spells
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Rice (Post 2270519)
why would a Wizard lend you their apprentices to help you farm wishes? Surely they be doing it themselves. So what you say doesn't make sense.

The party arrive in a new city. Lead wizard is Glamoured (IQ14) to look very impressive and his 'retinue' (the party) defer to him and spread rumours of this amazing wizard. Then the party let it be known on the grapevine that this reknowned wizard MAY be willing to take on an apprentice (or two).

I think it's pretty easy to see the party leaving town with a couple of extra beginner wizards/apprentices...

MikMod 06-23-2019 08:27 AM

Re: Least Useful Spells
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Rice (Post 2270519)
Surely they be doing it themselves.

Well, quite. I was really thinking about how practical it would be to farm wishes and it turned out - depending on the GM - pretty easy.

I think in my campaign 'will not suffer magic to be cast upon them' means that magic will not work on demons - it just makes them mad. At least the mind control type stuff (in which I include Avert).

Axly Suregrip 06-23-2019 09:15 AM

Re: Least Useful Spells
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Rice (Post 2270511)
Interesting, you've chosen 3 of my favourite spells!!!!

Awesome post. This is exactly what I hoped to see.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Rice (Post 2270511)
AVERT. Simply brilliant. The target gets no saving throw and it can affect anything, no matter how big or powerful it might be. Giants? Bah, go away you big lunk. 14 hex-Dragons.? Begone you overgrown snake! A summoned wolf wouldn't help you much there, would it. It's only weakness is against attacks from a distance, but you have reverse missiles for that.

Sounds like I am going to need to try Avert again. Sounds like its main purpose is to aid an escape or to give your archers another turn. If you need to defeat a foe, this always felt like too much to pay for no damage caused. But I see what you mean, it can be strategic.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Rice (Post 2270511)
DAZZLE. A low level Wizard's mass attack spell. The scout reports a chamber ahead full of orcs, too many for the party to take on in a straight fight. The Wizard declares, "stand well back lads, I got this." He approaches the door, throws it open, casting Dazzle as he does so. The party then change in and clean up. The only thing that stops it being absolute kryptonite is the short duration of 3 turns so the players may only get a couple of turns of advantage. My favourite combo was Dazzle Wizard and Blind Warrior.

Are you saying the good wizard's fighters are around a corner so they don't also get affected? Sounds risky for the wizard to set up situations to use this.


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